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29 December 2005 @ 03:14 pm
Titanic: Thomas & Rose (analysis, fanart and fanfics).  
Alright, I said in my previous entry that I was going to talk some more about "Titanic."  :)  Beware, this is going to be a long entry - and most of it is going under an LJ-cut.  :)

As some of you might know, I 'ship Rose DeWitt Bukater with Titanic's builder, Thomas Andrews. I know this is quite an uncommon and unconventional 'ship, but at least kiratollan is a fellow 'shipper (who, by the way, has created some good Romas artwork!) and I have found a small number of Romas fics on a Yahoo! Group called Titanic Dream Boat - it's no longer active (it never had been very active, anyway, because there are few Romas 'shippers). I haven't found any Romas fics on fanfiction.net so far, because there are 516 "Titanic" fics there at the moment, and after a quick look there, I daresay that at least 90% of all the fics there feature Jack/Rose. Understandable, ofcourse - but kind of annoying when you, like me, prefer some more variety in a fandom.  :|

Anyhow, the special features of the "Titanic" 4-disc special edition include having the film narrated by the cast and crew, including Victor Garber. He only comments during some of his character's scenes, which are: in the first class dining room, at the Grand Staircase with Rose, in the hallway (where he encounters Rose who asks for directions to the office of the Master-at-Arms), in the lounge (where he gives Rose his life-belt) and in the final scene of the film (where Jack awaits Rose on the stairs of the Grand Staircase). Victor generally talked about his character in general, or about how the experience of acting in this film has been for him. But when he comments during the scene where Rose approaches Mr. Andrews at the Grand Staircase and asks him whether the ship will truly sink, Victor says something about a certain kind of generosity between Rose and Mr. Andrews (I haven't heard all he said, since English isn't my first language). One of the executive producers of the film, Rae Sanchini, also comments during this scene and she speaks of a daughter-father relationship between the two, and that "Andrews seems to understand her on some level." Now, where have I heard the father/daughter thing before? Oh yes, with one of my other 'ships, Buffy/Giles from "Buffy, The Vampire Slayer" (the relationship between those two was often labelled as father/daughter by people who didn't 'ship them romantically).
But, Victor and Rae Sanchini's comments indicate that the chemistry between Rose and Mr. Andrews didn't escape their attention, and that's a good thing for people who see Rose and Mr. Andrews in a romantic way - because it means that they are not the only ones who noticed the chemistry between these two characters.  :)

I wrote a long piece of text about these two characters on April 8, 2003 and posted it on the Shippers United message board - which was really about how I interpreted every scene between those two, and how these scenes could be seen in a way that was pro-Romas. I would like to show this piece of text to you all, because it might be interesting to read. Obviously, it's going to go under an LJ-cut. The two images you will see posted during my analysis (so it will be a little less tiresome to read the text) were created by the talented kiratollan.  :)

Well, about a week ago I saw 2 episodes of "Alias" (the first time I ever saw something of that series), and when I saw Victor Garber (he plays Jack Bristow in the series), I was glued to the screen, 'cause I think he's one of the most handsome and cutest men on earth, but also because he's such a great actor. Since I'm quite a curious person, I went on the Net to look up more information about "Alias", and on April 7th, I started to post for the first time in the "Alias" section of Shippers United.

The thread I posted in for the first time, was called "Jack/Irina", where I said that I liked Victor Garber a lot, and I posted some pictures of him also. One of these pictures had him portrayed as Thomas Andrews, the character he played in the monster hit film "Titanic", which starred Leonardo DiCaprio & Kate Winslet. (And for those who don't know, Thomas Andrews was the builder of the ship.) As a reaction to that picture, kiratollan told me the following:  "If Titanic would have been a series, I would have been a Thomas Andrews/Rose 'shipper."  And that's where *it* happened. It was almost like a ton of bricks had hit me. Thomas Andrews & Rose DeWitt Bukater. A *perfect* couple. It's not as if I didn't notice the subtext between them before (I did, but merely unconsciously, so that I never really thought about it or never really realised it), but Kira talking about it really had opened my eyes.

I remember I had first seen the film in the theatre on February 27th, 1998, which is easy to remember, since February 27 is the day before my birthday. The film had really touched me a lot back then, especially because it was so tragic. Thomas Andrews was by far my most favourite character in the film, and that last scene of him, where he was moving the hands of the clock in the smoking room of the 1st class, really had me crying. I really didn't want him to die. But well, inevitably, it happened.  :(
Although I was entirely into the Jack/Rose romance back then, and had thus also let a few tears slip when it was Jack's time to die, I couldn't help but notice the subtext between Thomas and Rose. Being just 13 back then, I didn't know what exactly I was noticing between the two, as I had never heard of the terms 'shipper', 'subtext', 'chemistry' and stuff. I didn't even have Internet back then; it would take a few weeks after my birthday before we finally got Internet, and another couple of weeks before I got in touch with 'shipperness' and 'fanfiction' for the first time (which was at a site about "The Nanny", since I watched that show at the time, and I used to be a really huge Niles/C.C. 'shipper). But now, looking back on it many years later (in which I became a subtext whore ;)), I instinctively knew that I had noticed the *subtext* between Thomas & Rose. Back in 1998, I had felt something in all the scenes where Thomas & Rose were together and talking with each other, but I never could lay my finger on what that exactly was (so, in time, it went to the back of my mind and I forgot about it). But now I can. It was the *subtext* (or the chemistry, if you like).

So, last night, I grabbed my "Titanic" video (I'm now planning to buy the DVD as soon as possible, so that I have a better screen quality and so that I also have the possibility to make screen grabs) and re-watched all the scenes in which Thomas Andrews was present in. As you can guess, that weren't all that many scenes, since Thomas was kind of a minor character in the film, which I think is a bummer. Because, for God's sake, he *built* the ship, he surely deserved a little more screen time than that! :-/
Anyway, when I was watching those scenes, I had my notebook with me and I wrote down all the relevant information that I saw in the scenes where he was together with Rose, and also added my analysis or theories to each of them. I'd like to show that to you now, if you don't mind. The description of each scene is coloured in light purple, and my view on each scene is coloured in a darker shade of purple.

Created by Kira Tollan

1.  Lunch in the sunny Palm Court Restaurant. This is the first scene with Thomas Andrews.
In this scene, we see that Rose, her mother Ruth and her financé Cal Hockley have joined J. Bruce Ismay, Molly Brown and Thomas Andrews for lunch. At the table, Thomas is sitting opposite of Rose (unfortunately, they don't talk with each other in this scene). Rose is being a bit impolite and rebellious in this scene, as she doesn't listen to her mother when she forbids her daughter to smoke. And when J. Bruce Ismay is talking about *why* he chose the name 'Titanic' for the ship, Rose interrupts him and says:  "Do you know of Dr. Freud, Mr. Ismay? His ideas about the male preoccupation with size might be of particular interest to you." This comment from Rose causes Thomas to chuckle (and Molly Brown to smile), which shows he can surely appreciate her sense of humour. However, Rose's mother and Cal do not appreciate it, and Rose gets up and leaves the restaurant, leaving a confused Mr. Ismay behind (who doesn't get it and thus doesn't realise he has actually been insulted).

I just wanted to say, the fact that Thomas was chuckling about Rose's comment, shows he appreciates her (and her humour) and that he isn't easily shocked. Back then, in these times (the film takes place in 1912), comments like this were not appreciated at large (especially by first class people), especially not when they were made by women. Few people would not have been shocked by such a comment. So, for me, it shows Thomas is a good, nice, tolerant and open-minded man, who is not stuffy or narrow at all (maybe that's because he's actually Irish, not English). This means he'd be a good man for Rose. In a way, he's like Jack Dawson, only older and also capable of giving Rose what she wants and needs, just like Jack did. Like Jack, he'd understand her, too. But I think that, if Jack had survived the sinking of the ship and he and Rose would've gone to live in the United States, the relationship between Jack & Rose would have ended sooner or later. In the end, Jack can't give her what she needs - materially, because he's poor. He can't give her stability, which everyone needs at some point in their life. In that respect, Thomas is a better option for Rose, since he's not poor and *can* give Rose that stability.
Besides... Jack and Rose's romance... can it really be called a romance? Was it really love between them? They must've known each other for two days or something, so I think it could be described as puppy love (especially since Rose was a mere seventeen-year-old in the film), which is usually intense and passionate, but lasts short. And in those times, when people developed feelings for someone, they immediately rushed to think it was love, which is typical. People were raised differently back then, and they had other ideas than we do, and they lived more in a dream world than we do. They were naive and quickly thought there was love at hand, when there wasn't any, like most of the young teenage girls do today. So, the 'love' between Jack & Rose couldn't have been real love (it merely reminds me of a summer love, or some effort of Rose to be rebellious, and I think the latter *did* play a part in her feelings for Jack), in my opinion, so the relationship would have stranded anyway.

Anyway, I have the feeling I'm straying a bit away from the topic. Let's go to the next scene.

2.  Dinner with the first class in the dining saloon. First scene where Thomas & Rose talk.
As a reward for rescuing Rose from committing suicide (she was planning to jump from the ship), Jack is invited to have dinner with the people from the first class, which is most exceptional, since Jack is a third class passenger. A number of aristocrats are sitting around a large table in the dining saloon, and Rose and Jack sit among them. Cal is sitting on Rose's right there, and on her left is sitting... Thomas!  ;)  And Molly Brown is sitting on Thomas' left, and last, on Molly's left we have Jack. So, Jack is sitting a few seats away from Rose, which I don't mind at all.  ;)
At some point, Mr. Ismay (who is sitting near the Duchess of Rothes, who is sitting on Jack's left) says that the ship actually belongs to Thomas Andrews in some way, since he built the ship and "knows every rivet" (but well, Mr. Ismay still remains the actual owner). At which Rose quickly says, spontaneous (and polite and gentle):  "Your ship is a wonder, Mr. Andrews, truly."  Thomas gives her a meaningful look and says modestly "Thank you." Then, Rose looks away from him in order to look at her plate, but he continues to look at her for another second. And that's all they said to each other in this scene.

For me, this scène shows that Rose can be spontaneous with him, like she is with Jack. Also, for me, this scene shows a *little* of Thomas' affection for Rose (look at the way he looks at her). And here she already instinctively knows that he wouldn't mind anything she says or does.

3.  Tour on the Titanic.
The next day, in the morning, we see Thomas in the wheelhouse, and Rose, her mother and Cal are present there, too. It appears that Thomas is giving them a tour on the Titanic, which he gladly does, since he seems to be quite cheerful about it. Captain Edward J. Smith is in their presence, too, and everyone listens to Thomas until someone comes to interrupt them. The man, Sparks, addresses the Captain and says:  "Excuse me, sir. Another ice warning. This one's from the Noordam." Upon hearing that, Rose and her mother look a bit frightened and worried, but the Captain assures them that it's "quite normal for the this time of year."
Then, Thomas continues his tour with Rose and the others. When they're walking outside on the deck, Rose is walking by Thomas' side, and Cal and her mother are walking behind them. Rose and Thomas have the following conversation:

Rose:  "Mr. Andrews, forgive me. I just did the sum in my head, and it seems that there are not enough lifeboats for everyone on board."
[then they stand still by the side of a lifeboat, with Cal and Rose's mother behind them, who listen to them]
Thomas:  "About half, actually. Rose, you miss nothing, do you? In fact, I put in these new type davits, which can take an extra row of boats inside this one. But it was thought by 'some' that the deck would look too cluttered. So, I was overruled."
Cal:  "Waste of deck space, as it is on an unsinkable ship."
[and then Cal and Rose's mother continue walking, leaving Thomas and Rose a bit behind]
Thomas:  "Sleep soundly, young Rose, I have built you a good ship. Strong and true. It has all the life boats we need."

And then Rose is dragged into an other room by Jack, while Thomas and the others walk to the engine room. This is the end of the Thomas/Rose scène.

I can see in this scene that Thomas and Rose obviously feel comfortable with each other (especially on Thomas' side, which can clearly be seen when he remarks that she doesn't miss anything; you should see that look on his face); they are acting a bit informal with each other, although still carefully. Thomas also clearly admires and appreciates Rose's intelligence - undoubtedly he likes a woman who can think for herself and doesn't engage in mindless chatter.

4.  The ice berg and the sinking of the ship.
When Rose, Cal and her mother are in the room where the big staircase is with the clock, after the collision with the ice berg, Thomas also walks into that room, quite sad. Rose sees him, and when he was just preparing to ascend the stairs, she walks over to him and grabs his waist from behind, making him turn around. Then, she grabs his right arm with both of her hands. "Mr Andrews... I saw the ice berg, and I see it in your eyes... please, tell me the truth." she says. He looks at her gravely for a second, and then he grabs her left arm with his right hand, his other hand shortly holding her right hand. Then takes her aside, a bit away from Cal. They exchange the following words:

Thomas:  "The ship will sink."
Rose:  "You're certain?"
Thomas:  "Yes. In another hour, all of this, all you see here.... will be at the bottom of the Atlantic." [at these words, Rose's left hand goes to her mouth and covers it, in shock] "Please tell only who you must, I don't want to be responsible for a panic. And get to a boat quickly. Don't wait. You remember what I told you about the boats?"
Rose:  [Rose takes her left hand away from her mouth and lays it on Thomas' chest] "Yes, I understand. Thank you."

At which Thomas gives her a nod and leaves.

This scene shows how Thomas allows Rose to touch him, and vice versa, but I'd like to especially emphasise how Thomas allows it. The way Rose grabbed his waist there, is actually impolite, in those times (especially when a woman did that), see what I mean? A more polite way would be to just tap him on the shoulder, but she just grabbed his waist and turned him around. Thomas didn't mind that at all, though. And while he is in shock and amazement about the fate of his ship, he shows honest concern for her and tells her that she shouldn't waste any time getting into a lifeboat. I'd also like to say that, *after* Thomas had taken Rose aside to tell her all this, he stopped holding her right hand with his left hand, but he kept a firm grip on her left arm with his right hand. And Rose, on her turn, kept holding a firm grip on him with her left hand on his right arm. They kept holding each other like that during the rest of their conversation. This truly shows that between them, there aren't much limits when it comes to touching, both of them are quite physical and non-stuffy when it comes to each other. There is hardly any distance between them.

Created by Kira Tollan

5.  Saving Jack.
In a first class corridor, we see Thomas opening stateroom doors, checking if all the people are out. Rose, who is running and looking for Jack, sees him and shouts "Mr. Andrews! Thank God!" and she runs towards him. "Where would the Master-at-Arms take someone under arrest?" Thomas shakes his head and says: "What?! You have to get to a boat right away!" But Rose says: "No, I'll do this with or without your help, sir. But without will take longer." Thomas shakes his head and sighs in defeat, when he sees the determination in her eyes and tells her where she should go in order to save Jack. And there this scene ends.

This scene again showed to me how Thomas allows Rose to touch him, and vice versa. When Rose had run towards him, she had immediately laid both her hands on his chest, and left hem there all the time when she was talking to him. Thomas, on his turn, had grabbed both her arms with his hands, and he also kept holding her all the time. There's clearly affection between them. And Thomas is concerned about her, but even in his concern he understands her and lets her go to save Jack, although he knows that it's not right and will likely put her in danger. He just didn't have the heart to stop her from saving Jack. There, he reminds me a bit of Giles, who watched Buffy run to Angel all the time, but he also didn't have the heart to stop her from it, no matter how much pain it caused him.

6.  The fire place in the first class smoking room.
After Rose has saved Jack, she and Jack are running through the smoking room, where Thomas is standing by the fire place, staring at the clock. She stops running and tells Jack to wait. "Mr. Andrews!" she says, and then he looks at her, seemingly in shock. "Darling Rose..." he says. "Won't you even make a try for it?" she asks. "I'm sorry I didn't build you a stronger ship, young Rose." he says, and then Jack interrupts, saying that they have to move. "Wait!" Thomas says, and takes his lifebelt from the table. He walks to Rose, and hands it over to her. Attempting a reassuring smile, he says "Good luck to you, Rose." Rose stares at him, and then wishes him good luck, too. Then she gives him a hug, and then she leaves with Jack, leaving Thomas behind, who sadly watches them go. This is the last conversation between Thomas and Rose.

This tragic and emotional scene shows one last time how much they care about each other. No matter how bad the circumstances, he still managed a smile for Rose and thought of her safety by giving her his lifebelt. And Rose, when she gave him a hug. I don't think she had known Thomas for that long, and still she hugged him; in these times that was pretty exceptional, to give someone you barely know a hug, especially for stiff first class people. But she didn't care about that; she cared about him and she knew that she could hug him, that he wouldn't mind, that he would let her. How did she know that? I don't know, it was just instinctively, I guess. Rose and Thomas have been very comfortable with each other from the beginning, somehow they had both instinctively known that they could touch each other like that. I think it felt very natural to them.

7.  Dream visit to the Titanic.
We're back in 1997 now. Rose is old and is sleeping soundly in her bed, after she had thrown the jewel called 'the heart of the ocean' in the sea. We see the pictures of her, which all show how her life after the Titanic disaster must've been, and then we see Rose dreaming about the Titanic. In her dreams, she enters the room with the big staircase (with that clock). The room is filled with people. While she walks towards the staircase, all the people are smiling and nodding at her. On one of the first steps of the staircase stands Thomas, dressed in a tuxedo and smiling at Rose. And then Rose goes upstairs, to Jack, who is standing there, looking at the clock. They are reunited and smile at each other. Then they kiss, at which everyone in the room starts to clap their hands. And that's the final scene of the film.

You know, all the men (two, actually) Rose cared about were standing at the stairs. For me, this scene portrays that Thomas was *at least* the next most important man for her on the Titanic after Jack, as he's standing at the bottom of the stairs, and Jack is standing upstairs. Or, it could be vice versa, but I think the first is more likely.

Okay, that were all the scenes with my thoughts.  :)

Now, last but not least, I would like to point you to a scene that was featured in the original script, but probably ended up on the cutting room floor. I will simply quote the scene (which is actually an extended version of the scene where Jack attends dinner in the dining saloon).

Rose notices that Thomas Andrews, sitting next to her, is writing in his notebook, completely ignoring the conversation.


Mr. Andrews, what are you doing? I see you everywhere writing in this little book.

(grabs it and reads)

Increase number of screws in hat hooks from 2 to 3. You build the biggest ship in the world and this preoccupies you?!

Andrews smiles sheepishly.


He knows every rivet in her, don't you Thomas?


All three million of them.


His blood and soul are in the ship. She may be mine on paper, but in the eyes of God she belongs to Thomas Andrews.


Your ship is a wonder, Mr. Andrews. Truly.


Thank you, Rose.

We see that Andrews has come under Rose's spell.

Well, that certainly was an interesting little scene, wasn't it? And what an interesting choice of words: "we see that Andrews has come under Rose's spell."  ;)  I think this scene once more shows how comfortable each is with the other, especially how Rose automatically feels how he is an approachable, trustworthy and good man, otherwise she wouldn't playfully have taken his little book away from him and have dared to make a little bit fun of him. She instinctively feels at ease with him, hence her rather informal behaviour with him. Further, Thomas isn't in any way offended by Rose taking the book away from him without asking him for his permission, or by her attempt at making a little bit of fun of him. He's an open man who appreciates a bit of humour - he's not a stiff upper lip at all. He certainly likes Rose, that is evident.

In the end, from everything that I've seen and written, I can tell that Thomas and Rose would make a perfect couple, that they'd make an even better couple than Jack and Rose ever would. A relationship between Thomas and Rose would last, a relationship between Jack and Rose wouldn't (if you want to know my reasons of why, go back to the first scene and read my thoughts). I see Jack and Rose more as a Buffy and Angel, and Thomas is like Giles. The relationship between Buffy and Angel was doomed from the start, just like Jack and Rose's relationship. But if Buffy had a relationship with Giles, it wouldn't be doomed, and it would last (like it is portrayed in many B/G fics), just like it would be for Thomas and Rose (if he wasn't destined to die on the Titanic, that is). That's what I think, anyway. :)

Well, I think that's all I needed and wanted to say about Romas.  :)  If you have become a bit curious after reading all of this (then you should really see the film and see for yourself how Thomas and Rose are with each other) and want to see some fan art of this 'ship, or read the fics I have been able to find, then here they are:

Fan art:

"Remembrance in blue" by dying_dreams

"Remember our love" by dying_dreams

"Love on Titanic" by dying_dreams

"Lost Thomas" by kiratollan

"It's Too Late For Love" by kiratollan


"Unable To Stay, Unwilling To Leave" by Rose Austen (one-chapter fic)

"To Love Again" by Linda Champion (nineteen-chapter fic)


Lost - the Thomas Andrews/Rose DeWitt Bukater fanlisting
Current Mood: accomplishedaccomplished
Current Music: "The Portrait" by James Horner
Ashleylupinlover on December 30th, 2005 10:06 am (UTC)
I think you've made a fan out of me. I was always a million times more in love with Victor Garber than DiCaprio. I'll come back and read this when I have more time.
Lucille: John & Marlenadying_dreams on December 30th, 2005 10:40 am (UTC)
It was the same for me; apart from Rose, Mr. Andrews was the only other character that had really stood out to me in the film. :) And every time I watch the film again, the less I can stand Jack and the more of a joke the love story between Rose and Jack seemed to be (at least from Jack's side). I don't really know why; I suppose that the more often you see a film, you start to see its errors or weaknesses, or find more things you don't like. Something like that. :)
(Deleted comment)
rushysgirlrushysgirl on November 6th, 2006 02:22 pm (UTC)
Just want to remark on your excellent taste in shippings. Barbossa and Liz AND Rose and Mr. Andrews. WOW...a woman after my own heart indeed. I'm a big fan of Victor Garber, he's extremely sexy. I'd also like to see Rose with a more mature man. They would be perfect together. He's a gentleman, but not too stuck up for her. I have always admired his character and enjoyed his and Rose's subtle and brief yet powerful interactions. Love your work hun. xxx Makes me want to watch Titanic AGAIN also.
dorianslover: Thomas Andrewsdorianslover on November 27th, 2006 01:21 am (UTC)
*sighs dreamily* I love it...and you prove your point very well. Love to see what there are more crazy shippers and that i am not alone in this crazy world. :P
kezya: seanx2kezya on February 3rd, 2007 09:52 pm (UTC)
Wow, you're all over the unusual ships, aren't you? I came over here from youtube, and I owe you for starting me on Victoria/de Soto, something I'd never have thought of otherwise. I'm friending you now, if you don't mind - to show my gratitude, and also in the hope that one day you might write some meta on that. :)
abbiethunderings on April 11th, 2012 06:16 am (UTC)
Hello! I was just wondering whether or not you still had links to the fics you recommended? They aren't working for me. I just got back from seeing Titanic in theatres and I'm trying to get my hands on all the Rose/Thomas fic I can find. Thanks :)
(Anonymous) on April 12th, 2012 11:50 pm (UTC)
Haha, same. I found one good one on fanfic. Apart from that, can't find any :(
erikssirenerikssiren on April 16th, 2012 03:29 am (UTC)
I know it's been...eight years since you posted this but in rewatching the movie and everything about Titanic I recently fell in love with this 'ship and stumbled on this via Tumblr. Anyway, in case you or anyone else who comes here looking for fic, here are all the listings on fan fiction.net I've read some and while they're not all fantastic there are some really good ones on there.
(Anonymous) on August 8th, 2012 12:05 pm (UTC)
Hey, uhm... ive just discovered this, and even though it was posted YEARS ago, i still agree completely with the shipping of Rose and Thomas, and if ANYONE dares to blast holes in this ship, then i will go down with it... but on Fanfiction.Net I wrote a story called "The Irishman's Young Rose" which quickly became very popular not only on that site, but on message boards and tumblr pages worldwide! I had no idea how loved this pairing is, and how my story would snowball into an avalanche of something magnificent! "The Irishman's Young Rose" is now THE MOST REVIEWED Thomas and Rose story on Fanfiction, and is one of the most reviewed Titanic stories aswell, which as a 17 year old guy from Scotland, I must admit im very proud of. I dont know any of you, but we all share something in common, and now I would love to share my story with you. PLEASE, take a read, because it WILL be worth your time, I promise you that! There is romance, heartache, drama, conflict, shootings, an axe yielding Cal, a crazed Jack trying to shoot a fleeing Thomas and Rose, and of course, a love story unlike the 1997 film in any way! I didnt follow the 1997 plot in any way shape or form. mky story is 100% origional and it shows... if you read it :D take care folks! x
comealongpond14: cyber plannercomealongpond14 on January 25th, 2014 05:27 am (UTC)
Every time I watch 'Titanic,' I always notice their chemistry, and while I love Jack with her, I adore Thomas' kind demeanor and obvious soft spot for her. SO I am thrilled to find someone else who loves them together! ;D